Babatunde Akinboboye on Hip Hopera, Authenticity, and Letting Audiences Lead

This transcript is AI generated and may contain errors.

Monica Holt: Welcome back to CI to Eye. I’m Monica Holt. What if the best way to support a 400-year-old art form is to stop trying to educate people and start listening to what they actually want? Babatunde Akinboboye didn’t grow up around opera. He came to it as an adult and that gave him a fresh perspective that would eventually reshape how millions of people experienced classical music. In 2018, a video of him singing Rossini’s Barber of Seville over Kendrick Lamar’s Humble went viral overnight, catching the attention of TIME Magazine, Ellen, and millions of new viewers. But what started as a fun mashup in his car became something much bigger: a movement that’s giving people permission to love classical music on their own terms. Today with over 2 million followers, Babatunde is bridging worlds, performing in major opera houses while building an online community that breaks down the gatekeeping around enjoying classical music. He’s proving that opera’s tradition has always been to evolve with popular music, and he’s leading that evolution with authenticity, humor, and incredible artistry. My conversation with Tunde was full of gems and incredible insights, but his message to arts leaders is crystal clear. Listen to your audiences and let them be right. Let’s dive in.

Babatunde Akinboboye, welcome to CI to Eye. We are so thrilled to be talking with you today. Thank you so much for your time.

Babatunde Akinboboye: No problem. Thanks for having me.

Monica Holt: We’re going to dive into all of the amazing creative spaces that you are in and that you are exploring and pushing forward. But to start, I would love to hear a little bit about your earliest memories with music or the performing arts and creativity.

Babatunde Akinboboye: Well, funny enough, my earliest music memories almost are all based in hip hop. It’s all I listened to at a time where people were listening to hip hop and R&B. I couldn’t care less about R&B. It was just hip hop. And so I got to classical music. My introduction to classical, a formal introduction, was when I was 16, and that was my first time really understanding harmony or anything. So I honestly, 16 years old, my sophomore year in high school in choir, when the choir teacher said, okay, you guys are the tenors, you guys are the baritones, you guys are the bases. I want you guys to sing. Now, do it at the same time. And I was like, whoa. Blew my mind. And that was the moment I became a musician.

Monica Holt: I got you. Yeah. There is something about the first time you experienced being part of harmony. So you discover your voice in this choral setting in high school presumably, and then in your twenties, which could be considered a little late by some opera singers, is when I believe you had your first opera interaction or introduction. So how did it come about? Were you singing through high school into college and then it became an operatic space or what’s the story?

Babatunde Akinboboye: That’s exactly the story. So sophomore year in high school, I joined the choir and at that point I didn’t know there were classical choirs in the US at all. I thought it was just churches in Europe kind of thing. And so I fell in love with choir, choral music, and I wanted to be a professional choral singer. And so when I went to a junior college and I made it into the top level choir there, I got free voice lessons. And one day I was taking these voice lessons to be better in choir and the voice teacher said, have you ever thought of singing opera? And I was like, do I look like I’ve ever thought of singing opera? Why would you even bring that to me? He’s like, no, I think you have the voice for it. Let’s try a few things. And he was like, sing la. And I was like, la. And he’s like, okay, lower your pharynx and support… Now try it again. La. And I was like, there might be something to this. And then that was the beginning of that.

Monica Holt: That’s incredible. Did you keep singing in choirs while you started exploring opera as well?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Yes, because at my school at that time, the junior college, I was at Mount San Antonio College, did not have an opera vocal department, so I was still singing in choir because it was my introduction to classical music. It was my first classical music love. And so I stayed in choir and eventually this voice teacher, he said one day he’s like, you know what, Babatunde, I think you should pursue a career in opera. And I was like, I don’t know, I think you’re trippin’. And we went back and forth for a while and then eventually he said – opera singers are so dramatic. He eventually closed the piano lid and sat there quietly for a second and he says, I do not tell all my students to pursue a career in opera, but every student that I have told that has followed my advice has been successful.

So I was like, okay, let’s see. So the university nearby, California State University of Northridge, had a great vocal department, and so he suggested I go there and I knew that they had a really good choir there because I was still not sure if I was going to jump all the way in. So I was like, okay, lemme go there. And I auditioned there for the music breadth studies department because I didn’t have the confidence to do vocal performance. But halfway through my audition, they said, that’s a vocal performance audition. And they just – on my paperwork, scratched out breadth studies and just moved me into vocal performance. And I was off to the races.

Monica Holt: I mean, I would imagine going from being part of an ensemble to really putting yourself in the spotlight, that isn’t just a shift in terms of the way you’re using your voice, but also mentally and experientially. What did that feel like in the early days?

Babatunde Akinboboye: It was really exciting. I was really unfamiliar with opera when I auditioned for that university. I auditioned that day. I went home later on that evening. I got a call from the opera director asking me to play the role of Bartolo in the fall opera Marriage of Figaro. And I was like, sure. And then I called the voice teacher who had gotten me into this mess. I said, Hey, they want me to do Bartolo in the Marriage of Figaro. What do I do? He said, okay, you’re going to need to buy a score. I was like, okay. And I bought this book this thick [gestures], and every page was sheet music. And I was like, what have I done? What have I done? Because up to that point, I’m used to maybe five or six pages of sheet music from choral stuff. 

And so what ended up happening is that it didn’t end up feeling too different from choral singing for me because in a way it felt like we’re just another ensemble. And at the same time when I was in choir, I kind of always wanted solos when they made sense for me. And so I got the chance to have solos as well. And I’ve fortunately never really been shy about being in front of audiences. It’s never been an issue for me. So I took to it like a fish to water, I guess.

Monica Holt: That’s wonderful. Yes, we’re not all singing at the same time in eight part harmony, [but] we are still an ensemble though. I’m curious, do you think coming into opera the way that you did became a superpower for you and how you were looking at the world of opera as you were learning it?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Absolutely. I think it definitely was helpful to come to it the way I did. I’ve heard this analogy of if you take a frog and put it in room temperature water and slowly heat it, the frog will stay there and boil to death. Whereas if you take a frog and throw it in boiling water, it’ll immediately jump out. And I think showing up in opera as an adult, it was easier to see opera a little more honestly and accurately. 

I definitely was missing a lot of the cultural background and the stuff that my colleagues had grown up understanding and the names of these great singers and songs and so on and so forth. That being said, as far as how to see opera, how to interact with it, I feel like I had some benefits because it was all exciting and new and the difficult parts, the hard parts, and the parts that aren’t people’s favorites, fortunately for me was not something I really had to deal with.

Monica Holt: Is there anything to name that maybe you saw as an outsider that an insider would’ve already kind of brushed off or not acknowledged anymore because of your time with it?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Yes. The entire process of my first opera was – my first semester in opera school was incredibly exciting. I felt like a regular person who snuck in and got to be part of this opera process. So the first rehearsal we had for the opera was with the orchestra, and the orchestra was the university orchestra as well. They’re playing the overture for the Marriage of Figaro, and it’s my first time hearing an orchestra live and that Marriage of Figaro, I’ve heard that melody a number of times, the overture there.

And so I’m sitting there inside, I’m like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. But all my colleagues are like, they’re not really good. Did they practice? And so I learned how, but inside I had this excitement. And so every part of the process for the opera was thrilling, exciting, and everyone knew that I was very new to the world. So in retrospect, I saw how amused they were at how excited I was at every regular part, like costume fittings? What?1 We get to put on costumes now, are they’re opera costumes?

Monica Holt: Oh, but I love that. I hope that excitement and that joy stays with you, stays with anyone in the arts for as long as possible. I mean, I have that same internal feeling, and I think for a while… I’m more of a theater kid, and so when I was in classical spaces, even at the Kennedy Center, I felt a little bit like I needed to button up in some ways or put on a show. But now I think I’ve just gotten to the point that no, it’s just going to be unbridled enthusiasm when that feeling comes.

Babatunde Akinboboye: Yeah, a lot of the culture of opera I was unfamiliar with, so I didn’t know how buttoned up you were supposed to be. I just came in with just – it was theater, it was plays, just louder and no microphones. So I stayed excited the whole time. I would calm down when people were like, “Hey, Babatunde, relax.” And I was like, “Oh, sorry. Okay.” I learned it after a while and learned to think of it as another character that I play in these spaces, but I realized that it wasn’t necessary to participate or enjoy the art form.

Monica Holt: Yeah, I completely agree. It is not necessary. And I think as we talk about, then, all of the work that you’ve done in the online space, I think in some ways you use that persona and comedy a little bit as a means of getting into the art form. What do you think for someone who’s never seen an opera before, just doesn’t know much about it, has just always assumed that opera is probably not for me? What would you say to them as an invitation reflecting back on your earlier years in the space?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Oh, I guess in short, try it. Just try it. Because when I got to opera, there was so much to enjoy. There was so much that was for me. The lewd dirty jokes that are in every single opera. I was like, Hey, that’s my stuff. The kind of convoluted storylines that… It tickles me pink. As you know, I’m Nigerian, so I grew up watching Nigerian movies and the kind of drama was right in line with me. I was like, this feels like Nigerian drama movies, these stories. Just convoluted character arcs building on top of each other. I was just like, this is right up my alley. Let’s go. And so the jokes are funny, the music is good, and the costumes, the performances… You get a good cast and you will have a good time. Yeah, there’s some things that might be a learning curve and an adjustment, but try it.

Monica Holt: Try it. A theme so many of us should take. Okay, it’s 2018, you drop a video that I hope everyone has seen by now, and if not, we’ll link it in the show notes. You’re having a Rossini Kendrick Lamar moment, right? Barber of Seville. Humble. It blows up. What led you to first just create that piece of music and give that performance live that night?

Babatunde Akinboboye: So I don’t tell a lot of people this. My first opera role was Bartolo in The Marriage of Figaro, and so I had to take this giant book home and memorize a three hour opera in the language that I didn’t speak fluently. So I’m learning the music, and Bartolo has this one part where there’s like pattern. So I’m trying to learn this and there’s a lot of words really quickly, and I couldn’t get it memorized, and I was still – my primary music I was listening to all the time was hip hop, and so there would be hip hop music playing in the background. One day I was like, lemme just sing this to the beat, just to drill it over and over. [Vocalizes] And five minutes later I realized I had it completely memorized. And so –

Monica Holt: That’s amazing.

Babatunde Akinboboye: It was really exciting because up until that point, one of the ways I enjoyed hip hop albums is I would just memorize the entire album, top to bottom, all the interludes, everything. It was my thing. So at that point, it was like the path to memorizing stuff to a beat was well worn. So I started using hip hop for my opera career all through school as some tricky intervals to hear. I was like, okay, oh wait, I know that that’s opening from the Pharoahe Monch song. I got it. Or tricky rhythms, I would find a hip hop reference and it was my little secret that I had through my opera career.

Every now and then there’d be – it was really fun having some parts that – maybe a rhythm thing that most of my colleagues, or historically it’s known that people struggle with this one part, and I get it and it locks in immediately because I’m cheating. I have my hip hop trick and everyone’s like, how’d you get that? I was like, I dunno. I just practiced. So I’ve had this history of just already kind of marrying hip hop and opera. It was a regular thing for me to learn my roles to a hip hop beat. 

And so coming out of an opera rehearsal with Rossini still stuck in my head and being in the car, I had Figaro’s aria in my head and Kendrick Lamar’s Humble was playing, and I sang it along and I was like, that lines up really, really well, which has happened a number of times, but never that well. And I was like, lemme record this. I put my phone up on my dashboard and just recorded me singing along the way I do. And when I posted online, I did not expect that response at all. I remember I didn’t post it on my professional Facebook. I didn’t want my opera colleagues to see it. 

Monica Holt: Oh, interesting. 

Babatunde Akinboboye: I only posted on my personal Facebook just for my friends to see, because I thought they would think it’s funny. I posted it that evening, went to sleep, woke up the next morning, everyone had seen it.

Monica Holt: I mean, everyone had seen it. What was that experience like? The morning when you wake up…?

Babatunde Akinboboye: It was unreal because at that point, my social media, I had an Instagram, but I was just posting pictures of my food at that point. I wasn’t really –

Monica Holt: One of the people.

Babatunde Akinboboye: – trying to do social media stuff. So I posted that thing and then I woke up with missed calls, a bunch of text messages, and then when I got online, I saw how many views I had, and at first I was like, oh, excited. And then it registered. I think I remember seeing it wrong and thinking it was just a lot, and then I realized it was too many. That’s the way it felt. It was just like – and then I got an email and a phone call from TIME Magazine who wanted to interview me, and then I got another message from America’s Got Talent, and then Ellen’s producers were calling me to be on the show. And I remember I started crying. I got over – I just was overwhelmed. I just didn’t know. It was just so many emotions because, well, one, as a performer, I like attention. And so all this attention was great. It was like being thirsty and drinking out of a fire hose. It was intense. And then at the same time, I realized they were really impressed with me. I’m looking at the comments and things, and it was just really, really validating as a creator and as a music lover, because coming to opera later in life, there’s a lot of understanding of what opera is, but I didn’t grow up with that. And so there was some cognitive dissonance in some areas around the industry, and the interaction of people with my new creation kind of helped resolve some of that. It’s like, okay, no, the things I think are cool, most people think are cool too,

Monica Holt: For that reaction to be so sudden, but also so supportive – at least from the outside, that’s what it looked like – is extraordinary. I’m sure, as you said, overwhelming, any range of emotions. Also, suddenly all these people know who you are, which is great as a performer, but there is also this, oh, now all these people know who I am, that I’m sure…

Babatunde Akinboboye: It honestly didn’t bother me.

Monica Holt: Oh, great. You’re in the right field, then. You are…

Babatunde Akinboboye: I’m very well suited for this, meaning: I’m a public figure now. So some of the comments might not be pleasant and they don’t bother me at all because I’ve been doing operas for years, and when we have an opera scene, you know, La Traviata, he throws the money in our face and we’re doing it for the first time, and all the chorus in the background goes like [gasp], and the director’s like, stop. No, we can’t do that. Okay, you guys act surprised. I want you guys to look angry. I want you guys to think it’s funny. I want all this. And now we have a real life scene that looks more – So the comment section, I just feel like everyone’s playing their role. It’s like, okay, cool. That guy’s supposed to hate. That guy’s supposed to… This is the texture of what it’s supposed to be. And if I’m doing it and it’s just nothing but love, it’s just like, are these bots? What’s going on?

Monica Holt: Where’s the texture, where’s the personality?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Right? I was like, it’s supposed to have these people, and just like in these operas, the main character isn’t now turning around and interacting with the chorus and saying like, “Hey, no, you should have seen what happened, blah, blah, blah.” No, they’re just moving on and letting the chorus continue to comment and interact. And so yeah, I was really, really well suited for this.

Monica Holt: That’s great to hear. I love that perspective on it. And then your framing of it makes so much sense in that way. How soon after that initial kind of swell of support did you realize you could not just continue making videos that were pairing these two art forms that you love, but also really creating kind of a digital community around that work online?

Babatunde Akinboboye: It kind of happened on its own in the sense that, so one of the feelings I felt maybe a couple days after that video was I was on a horse that had taken off, and I’m just trying to hold on, and it was fun most of the time, but every now and then he’d yank and make a turn and I’d like – and that’s the way it felt. So I made the first video. All the comments? “You’ve got to make another.” The people who knew me and had access to me were texting me, “Make more and make more.” And I was like, fine. So I got in my car and made another one. They’re like, this is great. I’d buy an album of this. And I was like, really?

So my friend connected me with a producer who helped me put together three tracks, and I put out an EP and people were excited about it. It was great. And then someone else wanted me to come perform the stuff live, and I was like, perform it? Okay, I’ll figure it out. And as much as I was a public figure, I was still somewhat cautious because there is a certain way I thought I want to present myself as an opera singer, especially if I wanted to keep working as an opera singer. I want to keep getting hired. I don’t want to seem too rough around the edges. And when the pandemic hit and opera shut down and no one was getting hired, I was no longer worried about getting fired. And so it made it easier to speak more candidly about my opinions. And because so many people resonated with that, that was the beginning of me feeling like I had a community.

I remember posting about some study that there weren’t a lot of people who go to classical concerts that end up returning to classical concerts, and people were wondering why that was. And I posted on my feed and the comment section looked completely different from all the other comment sections, and this is what clicked it over for me. Someone commented on that post something to the effect of, “People are less educated about music these days and that’s why they’re not returning to the stuff.” And my followers, everyone else in there, completely called them out on being elitist and saying – went on and on. And I was like, I’ve made a safe space for these people. This is one place they could comment what they actually think and not get torn to pieces by the purists, if you will.

Monica Holt: The establishment, as it were.

Babatunde Akinboboye: Right? And where the establishment shows up and they get shooed out.

Monica Holt: Which is of course directly related to the topic they’re discussing, which is why people don’t return, right? It’s like, how could you become more of a self-fulfilling prophecy than that, right?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Right? Right. So yeah, I think that was the time when I realized I kind of created a community, almost a movement.

Monica Holt: Were you viewing what you were building as creating this new way for folks to look at opera and indirectly audience building for opera? Or were you more focused on how the kind of hip opera of it all could evolve as an art form with this audience?

Babatunde Akinboboye: I think my favorite part of this entire process, I didn’t know I was building anything. I was just having a blast. I was just having fun. And so I just kept doing the next thing that felt right, that kept – people said like, “Hey, we want this.” And if it felt like, oh yeah, that’ll be fun, I go ahead and do it, and I do the next thing and it’s like I’d make more. And I kept creating, and after a while I realized I had built a structure or something. Then I have a job just like anyone else of stepping back and observing what it is, and seeing all the dimensions of it, because I’ve talked about my feelings about opera and the hip hop opera mix of opera and hip hop, and I talk a lot about the black historical figures in classical music and just my experience being a black classical musician, the ups and downs of it. And I realized that there’s a cultural gap where there isn’t a lot of room for that. I’ve been using the phrase “sophisti-ratchet.”

Monica Holt: You have to trademark that immediately.

Babatunde Akinboboye: I wish I could claim that for myself, but I am sure I read it or saw it somewhere before. But for some reason, I feel like a lot of us fit in that category. The other day I was in Atlanta, I went to this really nice restaurant and I got a side of mac and cheese, and it came in this really fancy thing, and it was really high quality mac and cheese, different kinds of cheeses, but they topped it with crumbles of flaming hot Cheetos. And I was like, this is what I’ve worked for. This is why I wanted to become an adult. And so with that, musically, there’s not a lot of places where people can go and be both and so on and so forth. And so I’ve been glad to realize that I’ve essentially started the process of building that community.

Monica Holt: I think that’s right. And again, you started to talk about this too. You have over 2 million followers across all of these platforms. Whether you want to be or not, you’re essentially running a media company at that point. I think it’s really healthy that you don’t necessarily view it as commercially as that, but how do you think about your content strategy? Is it still as organic and just doing the next fun thing as it was when you started? Or are you creating more system about how it is you approach the creation and the creativity, as you said?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Yeah, I’m realizing that essentially I do have a media company. However, I’m still very much organically, instinctually, taking one step to the next. If your attention is on having a good time, it’s really easy to be consistent, having a good time. And so I leaned into that space. That being said, what I’m enjoying now is it’s kind of like I was just stacking metal pieces and screwing things and welding things together. Now I have a Ferrari and it’s exciting. It’s like, oh, but now I need to learn how to drive a Ferrari. And so that’s kind of where I am now, where it’s like I am putting in systems, trademarks, and copyright stuff, and I’m making sure everything is a little more… just building it more out of bricks instead of straw or whatever analogy you want to use. And I’m having a good time with it. And it’s exciting because I trust my instincts at this point, after years of just not knowing what I’m doing and then looking back and I was like, oh, some part of me knew what I was doing. So I just keep listening to that and just keep one foot in front of the next and I’m having a great time.

Monica Holt: The authenticity of what you’re talking about, just the genuine joy that you seem to bring to everything you do, it comes across the screen beautifully, and you really feel that as a follower. And I also think that means the next phase will be equally exciting because you’ll be able to apply that lens to whatever happens next. 

The result is that you are one of opera’s biggest influencers. How do you shoulder that? Because with this kind of authentic approach of just saying, you know what, this sounds like the right next thing for me to talk about, or the next piece of music I want to engage with… Do you think about the fact that you are also this connection between folks who might not know opera and opera, and how do you think about that bridge you’re building intentionally or as a byproduct of the work you do?

Babatunde Akinboboye: I do think about it more and more, and I almost feel – this word is so loaded, but I almost feel an obligation. Because when I do my live performances, when – the thing I love about it is I get the opportunity to meet the people in real life. And the through line in meeting these people is that in some way, they feel like I’m giving them permission, whatever that is, permission to go to the opera, to go check it out for the first time, because they know a little bit and they see me, and something about me makes it – they feel very related. And it’s like, okay, if he does it, then I can go. It’s kind of like when you hear your friend has gone skydiving, it’s like, oh, maybe I can consider it. One of my favorite things is, people tell me, “I used to play viola. It’s been sitting in my attic for 20 years, but I’m going to go get it today, going to go take it out and play it again.” That makes me – every time it hits me, because I’m realizing that in their mind, they weren’t allowed to continue because we don’t really let classical musicians be amateur. And so I gave them permission in a way to come back to classical music safely. They feel like, oh, I can enjoy it the way I enjoy it and for my fun. And I think that’s the goal. 

So I think about that more and more, and the result is I kind of lean into it more. It feels really good to help people, whether it’s to teach ’em something that they didn’t know and gives them permission or gives them validation or gives ’em a little more ownership of their own presence, of their own being. They’re less apologetic for being in the spaces that they’re being, helping people in that way, making people feel good, entertaining people, like little things.

I was at Mardi Gras and I was like, this guy was trying to catch the beads in front of me, and I jumped, I caught it. He turned back and looked at me and he was like, “You taught me how to tie a bow tie.” I was like, oh, you saw that video, one bow tie video I did. He remembered. And I was like, you’re welcome. He’s like, dude, I watched seven videos and then I came to yours and I got it right the first time. And I was like, that feels good. 

So the people that I give permission to do the things that they love, I can tell these people love their instruments, but something happened. They had some interaction, some experience where they didn’t feel like they could continue to love it the way they had, and they’re getting that love back. And if I can give people their love of music back, their love of their creativity back, are you kidding me? I’m setting an alarm. I’m waking up.

Monica Holt: What a beautiful gift that is. I hope some folks listening go sit down at the piano or grab their guitar or whatever it might be. And just think about that. You are very much a practicing artist on stage. You are part of an established and important opera community of performers, while you also are carrying those experiences along with your own perspective into creative spaces online. Do you prefer to keep those identities separate? Do you think of it as a continuum? I know that you referenced that kind of early on, you were worried about as you created new work in online spaces and hip hop that could impact how people view you in casting, et cetera, for main stage opera works. What does that feel like now that you’re a little further along?

Babatunde Akinboboye: So through the pandemic, when I got much more confident because I wasn’t worried about getting fired, I realized at a certain point that I didn’t need the opera career like I did before. Up until that point, any role I was offered in the opera, I took it. I said yes, because I got to pay bills, and I got to a point with everything else that I was doing that I didn’t have to keep my livelihood and my art connected in that way. I didn’t have to sing opera to live. I got to choose. And so once opera opened back up again, people started hiring and a couple of things had changed. One, I was less desperate, if you will, for lack of a better word.

Monica Holt: No, sure. You had some more job security from other means. Yeah,

Babatunde Akinboboye: Very much. And I cared a lot less what the opera world thought about me and what opinions they had because I had an audience and they liked what I did. So afterwards, I wasn’t worried about what the opera world thought about me. And then what was great, slowly the opera world started to see the value in my perspective, the things I was teaching, and the kind of community I’ve built. One of the things when I first went viral and I told you the horse was going and it was overwhelming, I had to figure out how to be these different versions of me, like the opera singer and then regular Tunde, all the different versions, the educator, the silly guy. And I fortunately realized very quickly that the only way I’m going to be able to do this consistently is to just be me all the time because this – I’m proud of me.

I love me. I like the kind of person that – I take him everywhere. And at the same time, I don’t want to run into people that are excited about my content, are excited about me, and then they have an altered experience. It’s like, oh, you’re different in real life. You’re not like – no. And I think it’s this way for me to be consistent in that persona and to be really, really authentic. 

And one of my favorite things that I learned while doing this is how polarizing authenticity is. And I say that in the best way. As I started to build more of a community of my people – because they’re not the only ones who needed this community. I did too. I needed a safe space where I could talk honestly and be backed up. And I learned that that polarizing authenticity, it repels the people that are not for you and attracts the people that are for you just like a magnet. And I had to get used to, especially as an opera singer, we’re people pleasers in a lot of ways. And I had to get used to upsetting people and letting some people be upset and have their own feelings because I also learned that if you are liked by everyone, you’ll be loved by no one.

Monica Holt: These are a series of great pieces of advice, but authenticity as a magnet to walk through the world in that way is a very powerful idea. Speaking of the onstage piece, you’ve been part of any number of gorgeous known operas, but you’ve also been a part of several world premiere operas in the past several years, and that’s An American Soldier, The Central Park Five, The Fall of Atlantis… What is it like being in a space where you’re creating a new work for an art form that’s 400 years old? What is that experience like? I would presume that your authenticity really feeds to that, and is that a freeing experience in a space where maybe that isn’t always the case when you’re going back to do a baroque opera or what have you?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Yeah, you nailed it right there. And I think that’s why I got to do so many world premieres. I do them well. I get excited about bringing my own personality to a character, my own way of singing, because one of the cool things about these newer operas is the cement is still wet as far as the rules go. And so you can still draw your name in it before it dries. And when we have a brand new opera that’s mine [and] I’m the first one doing the roll, I’m putting my name in the cement.

Monica Holt: Yeah, your stamp is there. So you mentioned earlier that you’re a Nigerian American and you had this opportunity to go back and perform at Lagos. What was your experience like growing up in Nigeria? And then what was it like to return as an artist and a performer for the Chamber of Commerce awards there?

Babatunde Akinboboye: It was one of the few times as a performer where I was kind of nervous, especially because I’ve done most of my performing career in the US. I pretty much know what to expect nine times out of 10. Going back to Nigeria, I was like, let’s see how this goes. And so I performed a few arias with Nigerian-style drums and talking drums and the instruments, and they loved it. They ate it up. And opera singers worry about Italian audiences because Italians can be really critical. Not like Nigerian audiences. If they’re bored, they’ll just stand up and just walk out. They’ll just leave. They won’t even really take the time to boo you.

Monica Holt: Protect their piece. Yeah,

Babatunde Akinboboye: Right. They’re not going to really pretend that they enjoy something they don’t enjoy. And so I was pleasantly surprised, like, okay, alright, it hits everywhere, let’s keep doing it. But when this album is done, one of the things I intend to play with more is mixing opera with Afro beats because hip hop is an American art form, and opera is a European art form. And there’s not a lot for Nigerians to – I mean, obviously they’re familiar with both, but when I go back there, I want to go back there bearing gifts.

Monica Holt: That’s gorgeous. I’m glad to hear you say that. One thing I’m interested in from your perspective and everything you’ve learned is where you see opportunities for growth in audiences for the performing arts across the country. Obviously, we’re in a moment where being together and acts of community are becoming even more important. So if an opera company brought you in as a consultant and just said, what should we be looking at, audience development wise, what kind of recommendations might you give?

Babatunde Akinboboye: I don’t think it’s even a conscious thing, but classical music feels like they need to educate the audience. It feels like the relationship from jump is just like, we know and you will understand. And I’m like, dude, are you looking at the numbers? Are you in the same world that I am? It’s like, it’s very, very backwards. The first indicator that this was wrong – it was like after my third opera competition, because operas love competitions. I realized there was this constant trend of, there’s first, second, and third place, and they also get to have an audience favorite and very rarely is the audience favorite the same person who gets first place. And in my mind I was just like…

Monica Holt: Connect the dots here.

Babatunde Akinboboye: They’re buying the tickets and they’re actually letting you know who and what they like. Do that! You get a lot of people in classical music that are trying to do music correctly and not, well, not perform interesting, entertaining music. They’re trying to do the music, what worked at a certain point, what they’ve been taught the best is. And it’s almost like a disconnection with music. Every now and then, someone will ask me if you had to explain what is good music or what counts as music and so on and so forth, and I say that my theory on how this started is way back in the day, some caveman or whatever heard some sound and it felt good. It’s like, oh, that bird chirping or something. I want to recreate it or I want to hear it again. And to this day, when we hear news that has nothing to do with music that makes us feel good, we say it’s music to our ears because it’s almost this feeling with the sound more than what’s going on with the sound.

And so you can tell what good music is. The audience will let you know. And just because it was good music doesn’t mean it will always be good music. Some music will always make the audience feel a certain way. Songs that were really popular in 2002, some of those songs, we play it now and It’s just like, eh. But if you play Living on a Prayer today, anywhere, it’s going to hit because it’s still good music. And I think because a lot of classic music is so great and so revered, they still think it is good music because I don’t think they’re remembering that the audience decides what good music is. 

And a lot of times I’m like, the score is the composer’s best way, their best hope at trying to translate this information to you. But you have to turn it into music, play with it. It’s not set in stone. And it feels like in classical music, it’s like, no, this is law. And it’s just like, that is not the music, that’s just how they try to preserve it. And just like anything else, it’s not going to be exact. It’s our jobs to now create it. 

So I think these organizations just need to listen to the audience and understand that they decide what good music is and take the risk, do something that they will like and go –If I were a composer and I wanted to make an opera for the people, what I would do is I would find someone who’s entertaining the people, like the producer Mike WiLL Made-It. And I’d go up to him, “Hey, Mr. Mike WiLL Made-It, nice to meet you. I am a composer of opera and I see that you make music that entertains people. I would like to study under you and understand your art form so that I can incorporate it into mine honestly and respectfully so that I too may entertain people with this art form that I do.” But that requires – I was going to say humility, but first you have to be aware of the actual dynamics, because I think classical music generally kind of looks down on hip hop and I’m like, have you seen the audiences? Have you seen the ticket sales, the records? I was like, what are you judging this on, this hierarchy? Because I get at some point it was a certain way, but right now you go in a fancy restaurant, they’re playing more hip hop than classical music.

Monica Holt: That’s exactly right. Lots of truth for us to digest on that one. Thank you. Okay, quickfire culture. If you could go back in time to a concert, a show, an event, what would you want to see?

Babatunde Akinboboye: You know what I would love to see live? There was a performance of Luciano Pavarotti and James Brown doing This is a Man’s World together.

Monica Holt: No!

Babatunde Akinboboye: There was this period where Pavarotti was doing Pavarotti and Friends and collaborating with a lot of pop artists – Michael Bolton, Barry White, and so on and so forth. But one of them was James Brown, and they performed live. Full orchestra. This is a Man’s World. In my mind, that’s how the song goes. Now I hear Pavarotti’s verse and it was so great. It hit. It was so good.

Monica Holt: Oh, that’s a great answer. What’s one free resource in any field that you think everyone should check out or be aware of?

Babatunde Akinboboye: Almost completely divergent from what we’re talking about, but not too far. Inclusivetherapists.com. Just like everyone who has a car could use a mechanic, I think we could all use some professional mental health assistance. And one of the big hurdles I’ve seen pretty consistently amongst the people I know is just feeling like a therapist won’t understand them for one reason or the other, something that they feel excluded about. And I think something about my field is, my people are the excluded people, the people that are left out of spaces very often. And so I found this resource and I was like, yeah, I want people to know about it.

Monica Holt: We’re all going to go check that out. Inclusivetherapists.com. We will add that to the show notes too. Thank you for that suggestion. That’s great. And now your CI to Eye moment. If you could broadcast one message to executive directors, leadership teams, staff and boards of thousands of arts organizations, what would that message be?

Babatunde Akinboboye: It would be to start listening to the audience. Let the audience be right. Let the audience in on the decisions that are being made

And things will change quickly, because if we’re trying to market to the audience, they know what they want and they’re letting us know. Watch the signs, see what’s going on. I mean, we saw Hamilton, you see what’s going on in Bridgerton. There’s a number of little indicators of where we want to go. And if it feels uncomfortable to do something that forward, think of yourself as a traditionalist. Opera and classical music has had a long history of evolving in relationship with the popular music at the time, which is why in opera, the Baroque stuff sounds completely different from Mozart. And Mozart sounds completely different from Gershwin because opera’s tradition is to evolve in relationship with the popular music. So if you really want to feel like a traditionalist, evolve.

Monica Holt: Gorgeous. Co-sign. Agree. Tunde, thank you.

Babatunde Akinboboye: Thank you.

Monica Holt: What a joy to learn more about you, to hear your perspective. I’m just so grateful for your time, but also for the leadership you’re showing across the field and the way that you are inviting so many folks to be part of that community of music that we all love. And I just really appreciate you being here.

Babatunde Akinboboye: Thank you.

Monica Holt: Thank you for listening to CI to Eye with Monica Holt. If you enjoyed today’s conversation, please take a moment to rate us or leave a review. A nice comment goes a long way in helping other people discover the show and hear from leaders in the arts and beyond. If you haven’t already, please click the subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts. We’ve got some pretty incredible episodes coming your way, and I wouldn’t want you to miss them. This episode was edited and produced by Karen McConarty and co-written by Karen McConarty and myself, Monica Holt. Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are our incredible designers and video editors. Our music is by whoisuzo. Don’t forget to follow CI on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, and TikTok for regular content to help you market smarter. You can also sign up for CI’s newsletter at capacityinteractive.com and you’ll never miss an update, and you can always reach out to let us know who you’d like to hear next from on CI to Eye.