Your Social Media Reboot

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Dan Titmuss: Hello everyone, Dan here. One of my favorite parts about August is that back-to-school feeling. The air is crisp, the pencils are sharp, and the notebooks are blank and full of possibilities. There’s something satisfying about a clean slate, right? It’s the perfect time to hit the reset button and gear up to conquer the year ahead. And in today’s constantly evolving, social media-driven world, refreshing your social strategy is just as good as buying a fresh pack of animal-shaped erasers. That’s because social is where your organization makes its first impression on potential audiences and fosters relationships with existing fans. An A+ strategy is key to not just healthy ticket sales, but lasting brand loyalty. In today’s episode, we’ll get your social grades up so you can start the 2024–25 season at the top of the class. First, I’ll sit down with CI Consultant Natalie Martinez to talk about advertising on TikTok: when it makes sense, how to get started, and the kind of results you can expect to see. Then I’ll catch up with Rachel Karten, a social media consultant and author of the popular newsletter Link In Bio. We’ll discuss ways to elevate your organic strategy and get more out of your content. And for extra credit, stick around until the end of the episode for a lightning round of our favorite arts stories in the news. Let’s dive in, shall we?

So for today’s Digital Download, I’m joined by Natalie Martinez, a digital marketing consultant and TikTok platform specialist with CI. Thanks so much for joining us, Nat!

Natalie Martinez: Oh my gosh. Thanks so much for having me.

Dan Titmuss: So a growing number of arts organizations are joining TikTok, but not many have started running paid campaigns on the platform. Why should we consider adding TikTok to our paid strategies?

Natalie Martinez: So there’s a number of reasons, and the first of course is that you’re getting in front of newer and younger audiences. I know everyone thinks that’s where the kids are at. And to an extent that is true. From a paid campaign perspective, when we kind of give the platform free reign to serve to all of the age groups, we do see a number of those impressions skewing to some of the younger age groups, whereas on Meta for example, we tend to see those impressions skew to 35 and up. So if you have a show with a lot of younger audience appeal, if you have programs for young ticket buyers like 30 under 30, or if you have rush discounts, this is a good place to be if you have discounted ticket offerings just because along with younger audiences does come less buying power.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah, I think one of the things that TikTok really lends itself to is building brand awareness. And so by advertising on a platform that does skew a little bit younger, you are sort of building that audience that’s going to come later in life, hopefully.

Natalie Martinez: Absolutely. And because the ads are placed in the for you page where just, if you’re not familiar with how the TikTok app is set up, the for you page is a discover feed. It is for people you don’t already follow most of the time. So people are kind of expecting new things to come across their for you pages as opposed to their friends feed, and that really helps in terms of the mindset when you’re then seeing an ad for an organization you maybe have never heard of before. And from a paid perspective, when we give the algorithm free reign to spend accordingly across ad groups, despite the fact that we can now also target CRM lists and retargeting pools, a lot of the conversion data, a lot of the impression share does tend to come from some of those acquisition groups. So it’s really great for brand awareness

Dan Titmuss: And it can also fill the gaps of your digital strategy where targeting isn’t available on other platforms. Right? That’s one of the big trends we were chatting about before.

Natalie Martinez: Yeah, particularly for behavioral targeting. If you recall, a couple of years ago, Meta really made some changes to their interest targeting segments and behavioral targeting to remove anything that may be seen as sensitive information that includes anyone interested in health causes. And it also included the deprecation of any sort of LGBTQ-friendly interests on Meta. But on TikTok, we have all of those available to us. So if you have Pride programming, if you have queer icons performing, and you want to be able to reach people with some of those interests, TikTok is a great place to do that. Great place to reach people interested in the holidays. It’s really nice. We have a lot more flexibility for behavioral targeting here.

Dan Titmuss: It’s also worth mentioning that TikTok campaigns aren’t just for these big organizations with money to throw at just another channel. It’s also an efficient way to build an audience if you are a smaller organization, as long as it fits into your broader strategy.

Natalie Martinez: Yeah, it’s important to think of it as a strategic addition. It’s not going to work super, super well with everything. But in those situations where you’re kind of trying to fill a targeting hole on Meta or where you do have the additional budget to be able to sort of develop new younger audiences, it’s a great place to be. But I don’t think you need to be advertising on TikTok just for this sake of being on TikTok. I feel like when it really lends itself to being a good opportunity, that’s when, especially for smaller organizations with limited budget, that’s when you should really take the leap.

Dan Titmuss: I think over the last few years, vertical video has become more prevalent and people are just naturally creating more vertical video pieces of media right now. So that kind of gives you an in, right?

Natalie Martinez: Yeah. And so in years pasts, I feel when there wasn’t all of that vertical content, it felt like such a burden to then have to add to it just for something like TikTok. But now it’s really great because you can repurpose some of those assets and if you’re already creating vertical oriented content and you’re not already on TikTok, it’s good to keep in mind that you do want to diversify the channels that you’re advertising on. You don’t want to kind of get stuck in a rut in one or two, and if you already have the assets, it’s a really great place to use them.

Dan Titmuss: And what kind of ad formats are we looking at here and what should we be thinking about when creating TikTok ads?

Natalie Martinez: We have a couple options. Obviously there’s video, which we’re used to on TikTok, and that’s for ads. It’s anywhere between five and 60 seconds, ideally vertical, although you can also run horizontal and square videos on TikTok. And of course your caption is overlaid over that video in white. So we always want to be mindful of what is behind that text, making sure that the white caption is still legible, but excitingly, we can also run carousel ads now. And unlike I think Meta where we have a maximum of 10 images on TikTok, we can run anywhere between one and 35. So now we have a bit more variety with the types of assets we can run with TikTok ads.

Dan Titmuss: And what kind of ad placements are available? Where are people seeing these ads?

Natalie Martinez: The most applicable for arts organizations is going to be your in-feed ads, which if you have TikTok, these ads appear throughout the for you page, and they’re sprinkled in between users’ algorithmically delivered organic content. These have a CTA, so it’s great for driving conversions, and they appear very native looking to the app, so they do resemble the other ads that you’re seeing across the platform. And it’s nice because TikTok did just release a case study comparing some of the TikTok in-feed placements with those of CTV and streaming. And there’s more of an ad recall, there’s a 23% recall lift with TikTok ads compared to some of those CTV and traditional TV placements.

Dan Titmuss: There was an article a while ago that we talked about on the podcast about TikTok being used as a search engine, particularly among Gen Z. And as a search guy, I do a lot of SEO. I find this super interesting because it’s such a useful way to do research. Thinking about if you’re planning a trip, for example, putting in “things to do in Hawaii.” The content you get is so incredibly useful compared to some of the so SEO focused articles you get on Google. Also, we can lean into that with ads as well, right?

Natalie Martinez: Yeah, and this is exciting. This is a relatively new feature from TikTok, but if you’re running in-feed ads, within that setting, you can opt into also appearing on the TikTok search engine results page, which is great because when you say search ad, your brain goes to a Google search. It’s very text-based, and it’s not always as relevant as you want it to be despite what Google claims. And TikTok’s search results are very good at being relevant to each individual user. So being able to show your visual ads, your video ads, in the search results feed is incredible. So, very excited for people to be able to take advantage of that these days as well.

Dan Titmuss: So when we’re setting up these campaigns, what kind of bidding strategies are available? Is it similar to Google and Meta?

Natalie Martinez: Yeah, it’s relatively similar with slightly different naming conventions. There are two. So we have maximized delivery, which is the same thing as maximized conversions on other platforms. And this just means you’re maximizing the number of whatever conversion you’re asking the platform to maximize within your designated budget cap. And max conversions is the most widely available bidding strategy on TikTok campaigns. It’s an option for every single campaign type. We also though have cost cap, which is effectively the same thing as Target CPA, so it’s keeping your average cost per conversion around whatever bid you set. So that cost cap bidding strategy is only available with app installation campaigns, conversions campaigns, and lead generation campaigns.

Dan Titmuss: Have you run any TikTok campaigns for CI clients? And if so, how have they performed? How have they been doing?

Natalie Martinez: Yeah, one of our larger theater clients has spent a fair bit of time advertising on TikTok this calendar year with a lot of success, which we’ve been really happy to see. They have been advertising productions in their Broadway series, and all of them have returned pretty high ROI, but with modest investment. So there’s probably room for this particular client to invest some more. What has been interesting though about this theater client is they’re testing out some broad targeting within their campaign. So of course they’ve got audience segments with very specific criteria, but they’re also including a broad segment that is only defined by geolocation. And what’s been interesting is that the cost per conversion for that broadly defined audience has typically been the lowest. Not necessarily the highest volume of conversions, but it’s been highly efficient, which does tell us that TikTok’s algorithm is very good at delivering to the people that it thinks are going to convert. So when we do things like this and we give it some more room to stretch, we can then on the backend see within that who was actually responding that we maybe weren’t going to be targeting in the first place.

Dan Titmuss: So the more you are sort of leaning into it, the more you’re learning, essentially learning about your own audience through TikTok that you may not even know about. And there’s also a Nutcracker campaign as well, right?

Natalie Martinez: Yeah, one of our ballet clients this past holiday season, so for their Nutcracker 2023 campaign for their first foray into TikTok… So this was a very traffic-oriented campaign. We were not asking it to drive purchases. Spent about $1,400 and returned a just under 200% ROI. I bring it up because it did well for a first attempt, but TikTok has put out some data on its user base and where they’re making purchases for the holiday season. And because we have things like “TikTok made me buy it,” because we have things like “TikTok shop” and TikTok being used as a very relevant search engine, people are going to TikTok for holiday season purchases. So 40% of TikTok users who are making Christmas purchases bought at least something they found on TikTok, which is something to keep in mind as we round into the holiday season.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah, absolutely. So TikTok just rolled out new advertising policies that protect the privacy of users under 18. How are these new policies impacting our ability to target younger audiences?

Natalie Martinez: Yeah, this is brand new news as of last month, as of July 2024.

Dan Titmuss: Breaking news.

Natalie Martinez: Breaking. But I should say it’s a breaking update. Back in February, TikTok started rolling out protections for users under the age of 18, and those included some restrictions on the campaign types that we could use to target 13 to 17 year olds. So basically no TikTok shop campaigns and no conversions campaigns where we’re actively selling things to minors. But other than that, it was still mostly business as usual. There were some minor restrictions on some of the niche behavioral targeting and niche interest groups that we were allowed to layer in for some of those younger audiences. But as of July 2024, you cannot target users under the age of 18 with any sort of audience criteria. So if you’ve run campaigns on Meta, you know what I’m talking about. You can still reach people 13 to 17 years old, but it’s really broad. You can include geotargeting and that’s basically it.

I think it’s geotargeting and maybe language. And on TikTok, it’s the same thing. So they’re still able to be reached, but we cannot be that specific. The good news is that it’s TikTok and their algorithm is top notch, so it’s not the end of the world and it’s still really the place to be if you’re trying to get in front of those people. But if you want to include 13 to 17 year olds in your campaigns, we would just suggest that you break out the ad group with the younger people on its own and then have a separate ad group with 18 plus where you can still be pretty specific about your audience criteria.

Dan Titmuss: Are there any new TikTok ad programs coming down the pike that we should look out for?

Natalie Martinez: Yes, we’re in the exploratory stage with a couple of our clients for a couple of programs. One is called the TikTok Creative Exchange, and one is called the TikTok Creative Challenge. Both of these are different programs from TikTok that effectively make it easier for advertisers to work with creators in getting UGC content, user generated content, without having to work out contracts with those creators. So TikTok is paying the creators, they are getting compensated. All the advertiser has to do is commit to a media spend. So if you’re running a campaign and you’re interested in working with creators and getting some really organic-feeling content from people that do this for a living, it’s an exciting program and I’m looking forward to hearing more. So hopefully I can come back with updates.

Dan Titmuss: Yes, you’ll have to come back on the podcast to update us. Alright, one final hard-hitting question. What are some of your favorite TikTok accounts?

Natalie Martinez: I’ve been consuming a lot of Olympic TikTok lately, and I feel like a lot of people have, but I’ve been a big fan of Ilona Maher who plays on the US women’s rugby team. She’s hysterical and she’s very charismatic. But also Henrik Christiansen and if you know, you know—but the Muffin Man, the Olympic Village Muffin Man, is so funny. He’s a swimmer from Norway. So I’m excited to see what Paralympic athletes show up on my feed in the next couple of weeks since we’re coming right up on that as well.

Dan Titmuss: Have you seen, is it Sammy Sullivan who’s also on the US Women’s Rugby team? She just went full in on converting all of her fame towards getting Legos.

Natalie Martinez: That’s so funny.

Dan Titmuss: Well, this was super insightful, super helpful. Thank you so much for joining us on the pod.

Natalie Martinez: Thanks for having me!

Dan Titmuss: So Rachel Karten is a social media consultant based in California, and she’s worked with social media over the last 10 years and led the social media team at some of my favorite food organizations, Bon Appetit and Epicurious. And she now writes a newsletter called Link In Bio, which everyone should go and subscribe to if they haven’t already. It has over 60,000 subscribers. Rachel, welcome to the pod!

Rachel Karten: Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah, excited to chat with you. So let’s talk about what drew you into a career in social media.

Rachel Karten: I mean, I feel like I grew up with social media. I wrote one of my college application essays about how I would write Facebook captions for my friends’ photo albums. It’s just always been in my blood. I had a blog in college that was about food and fashion, and I just have always been interested in telling stories on the internet for as long as I can remember. And so when I graduated in 2013, it felt like such a pivotal time where brands were just discovering social media. Instagram had been out for maybe a year or two, and so the timing was definitely a huge factor in it.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah, for sure. How has the social media landscape shifted over the years since you started in 2013?

Rachel Karten: Yeah, I think that when I first got into social media, it was thought of as a distribution channel for your brand. It was just where you can draw new audiences in and bring them somewhere else or to your website. And I think now people think of social media as the brand, and you should give the people the full experience on these platforms and don’t make them go to a link or make them go somewhere else to experience your brand. They should be able to feel it on these social channels. So I think that’s why social media is so important for brands is just it’s a place where people discover your brand, where people get to know your brand, where people build fandom around your brand, everything is happening there. And so I think it’s so important that brands invest in their social strategies and social teams.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah. So you said that a core part of any brand’s social strategy is determining shareable universal truths, which I love. I love this perspective because that’s often so much of where comedy comes from. One of my favorite posts you did was with West Elm and you said, how many cups can you fit on a nightstand? And that post was just, it was genius because it was so true. Everyone’s nightstand is just filled with a bunch of stuff that we just keep forgetting to move. Mine is just piles of unread books that I’m ambitiously just hoping just go into my brain.

Rachel Karten: You’ll look so smart.

Dan Titmuss: So smart, such a trick. So can you share a bit more about that perspective of universal truths?

Rachel Karten: Yeah, I mean, when you think about social media, it can be a funnel. And so if you just talk about your product all day long, you’re not really going to attract new people to be interested. And so I think a lot about what is the bigger universal truth that your brand speaks to and how can you bring people in through that? I think about… Yeti is a good example. I always think about, it’s like it’s not that they make really durable coolers and tumblers, it’s that they give you tools to fuel your next adventure. And so their social is talking about the adventures that you can go on thanks to Yeti’s products that are super durable, but they lead with that adventure. And I think that all brands should be thinking about: what does their product or experience empower people to do that then they can speak to? And then there’s humorous ways into that. I think the West Elm example with the cups on the nightstand, there’s the clothes that pile up at the end-of-bed bench. There’s all these things that are universal, and from that universal truth, there’s a lot of really fun ways in that is relevant to anyone who is in your industry or cares about your industry, not just your product.

Dan Titmuss: I think that kind of relates to arts and culture organizations as well. Because we are so mission-driven, I think sometimes we can get bogged down with trying to promote, trying to sell tickets. How do you think arts organizations—like museums, ballets, theaters—can better showcase the sort of experience they offer on social media?

Rachel Karten: Yeah, I think that there are a few ways in for arts and cultural organizations. I think about, well, one is the more obvious experience of going to it. And so I think there’s a lot of universal truths of going to a museum. If you go with somebody else and there’s one person who zooms ahead and you’re far behind. There’s tons of these funny moments of when you go to a museum that you can think of, and how can organizations play into those types of universal truths? And then I think there’s ones that I’ve seen where… I think LACMA might’ve been the one to really start this a while ago with their Snapchat. And they would take universal truths but apply them to the artwork. I think they were taking memes or just relatable type things, but using the artwork to express them. And I think that’s an interesting way, and I think the Whitney has done that as well, is taking artwork and applying it to something that’s happening in the cultural zeitgeist is their art that reminds them of Brat and Charlie XCX. There’s ways in through art and I think that’s another way to bring the art into the current conversation.

Dan Titmuss: A lot of the organizations that we work with have been around for tens, sometimes hundreds of years. They are their brands. I think often they can be scared to sort of dip their toe into some of these more sort of risky content pieces. Do you have any tips for how legacy institutions might work towards that?

Rachel Karten: Yeah, I think bring the experience of going to these organizations to the internet and then you can slowly build in like, “Hey, when we tried this interview style that’s not our usual ‘trying to sell tickets’ style, it did really well. Let’s try this trend next that’s a little bit more of a risk.” And you kind of ease in. For example, the Met, they just interviewed what it is to be a guard at the Met. That’s really interesting. I’ve never heard that perspective. The video did really well and it’s just a simple sort of tiny mic, little interview with a guard at the Met. Also the Huntington Gardens that are here in Pasadena, I think they have this really smelly flower that blooms and it’s the best time of year. It’s so fun to watch them live reporting that this thing is blooming and how smelly it is. And they interview people about how smelly it is and what it smells like. And some of these organizations could be nervous that that would make people not want to come. No, I want to smell this flower so badly now!

Dan Titmuss: Is that the rotting meat flower? Is it the biggest flour in the world? Yeah. Someone on the SEO team, Selia, she recently got a subscription to Huntington Gardens and she was saying she went to go and see that because they’ve got live reportings that it blooms once every 12 years or something like that.

Rachel Karten: Something wild. And it’s the best. And I think that once you actually go and experience the place in person, you’re like, oh, I recognize that from their videos. Or that’s the person that I have loved following, or that’s the guard that was profiled by the Met. And so I think by filming some of your content instead of building out some set or feeling like it needs to feel super polished, film it where people will actually be having their IRL experience.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah, for sure. And also sticking with it as well. One of the things [or] advice from you recently I read was “stick with the bit.” I’m really getting into clown in LA. I don’t know if anyone else knows this, but LA has a huge clowning scene. So I’ve been watching a bunch of clowning shows recently and they do a thing where they’ll keep doing the joke until it’s funny. And I love that idea of sticking with the bit. Do you see a lot of brands start to take risks and then stop when their content doesn’t immediately resonate?

Rachel Karten: Yeah, I think that’s a big issue and I get why that happens. It doesn’t feel good to post a flop. I’ve been there. It’s not fun and especially if it’s something that you’ve worked hard to get buy-in for. But if you believe in an idea for a social series or a new content franchise for your organization, stick with it for a little and you never know when it might get picked up and find the right audience. And do things like tweaking the first five seconds or how can you tweak it to then maybe help it find its audience? I think about when I was at Bon Appetit, the show It’s Alive was not a hit at first, but then they just kept posting and figuring it out and then it found its audience. And so I think with social media there’s a feeling like, okay, scrap it.

We tried it once and it didn’t work. And I would love to see, treat it more like YouTube. Tweak it, try it, keep at it. I don’t know how Hot Ones did at first, but that’s a huge show now. And so I think if you believe in the idea, I encourage you to stick with it. If you have a manager who goes into crisis management because a post doesn’t do well, that’s a red flag on the manager. Posts are going to flop. If you’re taking risks on social, which you should be, there’s going to be things that don’t perform. Obviously it’s different if the audience has a really negative sentiment towards it, but if a post just simply doesn’t do well, great. No one saw it. You’re good.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah. Do you have any advice for people who might be dealing with that? With pressure from managers?

Rachel Karten: I think it’s easy to react really quickly to numbers and just see red, bad, green, good. And there’s so much more to that. And so one of the big things that I’ve always done is with reporting, less graphs and more editorializing.

Dan Titmuss: Narratives.

Rachel Karten: I see this didn’t do well, but we really took a risk here and I’m really proud of the team for putting it together. You can see how amazing the editing was. We’re going to try editing the first five seconds and see if that helps it and put it up again. Editorialize more than just share numbers, I would say.

Dan Titmuss: Awesome. So let’s talk about assessing trends. Earlier this year you released a list of brand social trends that you observed in 2024. Can you dive into some of your favorites from that list?

Rachel Karten: One of the big things in this recent list was the word ownable. We’re living in a very trend-based social world right now. TikTok has really helped with that. There’s songs that if you’ve used them, your post will do better. There’s sounds and voiceover, all this kind of stuff. And so I think always thinking about what’s the ownable way into a trend that could really set your organization apart. Have you seen the trends where it’s like copy pasta horny texts? There’s that style, and I’ve seen, I think MoMA PS1 did it. I forgot what they were promoting with it, but they used that form. I thought that was really interesting and funny for an arts organization to take that most bottom-of-the-barrel type of text and turn it into—

Dan Titmuss: Lowbrow.

Rachel Karten: Lowbrow. So I thought that was really smart. And just what are the twists that you can take on a format or a trend or if you’re an arts organization, is there a trend that people would say, oh, they would never participate in that? To me, MoMA PS1, that’s a good example. And then you manipulate it or twist it in some way that feels really ownable. And so I think another example is if you look at NPR’s Planet Money on TikTok, they have a really specific video editing style that’s just so them that as soon as you see the video, it’s them. And if any brand tries to do that style, they’re copying them. That’s an ownable thing that your brand can really say is theirs. And so I think with trends it’s like, what’s our ownable sort of way into them?

Dan Titmuss: What trends are you seeing on the horizon for the second half of 2024?

Rachel Karten: I would say, you know… I would never have ever said this before, but I think that LinkedIn is feeling really good right now. I am very interested in LinkedIn. I’ve been seeing numbers where videos are weirdly performing really well there and I could see arts and culture organizations having a big audience there. If you think, I mean, I also just think, thinking about LinkedIn, it’s—the same people who are on LinkedIn are the same people who scroll TikTok. They just have a little bit of different user behavior on that platform. And so are there ways to, I don’t know, lighten LinkedIn up a little bit? Make it not feel so stiff and where you just give company updates? But I dunno, I’ve seen content performing really well there and I’m sort of curious to see how brands maybe break the rules of what a traditional LinkedIn post should be.

For example, the Met interviewing a guard who worked there. That could go on LinkedIn. What makes that not worth putting on LinkedIn? It’s about an employee who works at this organization, and so maybe you wouldn’t typically think of that as a brand post that could go on LinkedIn. It’s a little bit too TikTok-y, short form video, but we’re seeing that short form video is actually performing quite well there. And people scroll LinkedIn looking to be educated, to be entertained, and a lot of great TikTok and Reels already do that. So what’s stopping you from testing posting that there?

Dan Titmuss: Interesting. What brands do you follow that you think are doing a good job?

Rachel Karten: I love following the Getty Museum on Instagram. They do an amazing job. The Whitney on Threads is really good. I follow the Met. Milwaukee Public Library. I follow American Ballet Theater. And of course the Huntington Gardens.

Dan Titmuss: Talk about the Milwaukee Public Library. What do they do that’s different?

Rachel Karten: They again lean into the universal truths of the experience of a library and they have their librarians actually doing skits. It makes me want to go visit that library. And I think another piece of it is just the characters that can be in some of these brands’ accounts. I think I want to go meet the librarian who I love following on that account, or I want to go see the rat from the American Ballet Theater. I’ve seen them in TikToks. I want to see what they do for real on stage. And so it kind of makes you invested in these characters on social that you then want to experience and see in real life.

Dan Titmuss: And I’ve never met a librarian who doesn’t love being a librarian and talking about being a librarian as well.

Rachel Karten: Totally.

Dan Titmuss: Same with, I have a background in zoology before I moved into marketing and every scientist I ever met could talk for hours about their nichest subject. I think there was, I want to say it was a history museum. They had a guy who did snail jokes and snail facts every single week for a while in the pandemic.

Rachel Karten: And just videos where somebody’s nerding out on something very specific is really fascinating and fun to watch.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah. It also reminds me a bit about the peek behind the curtains. We have this phrase of, “Your ordinary is your audience’s extraordinary.” There’s examples of Troilus and Cressida. In the play they have a huge bloody scene. I think that’s the one where someone’s eye is removed and they showed exactly how that eye was removed and how they cleaned it every night and reset it the next day.

Rachel Karten: Oh, that’s amazing.

Dan Titmuss: I love stuff like that.

Rachel Karten: That’s amazing. I love that.

Dan Titmuss: Maybe it was King Lear, I can’t remember. All the Shakespeare nerds who are listening to this are screaming at the podcast right now, and I can hear them. What do you think people misunderstand most about social media management for brands?

Rachel Karten: A lot of people think that it’s really fun and we’re just on our phone all the time, and “how lucky you get to scroll…” I mean, I remember a colleague saying that to me like, oh, you just scroll all day. And while some of that’s true—I do find it fun, I obviously work in it for a reason–it’s a lot of hard work. It’s really hard to reach audiences and it’s a really, really valuable function for a business. And while the ROI isn’t as numbers-driven as paid social or email marketing, it’s so so important and so valuable. And so I dunno, I just think that there’s a lot of hard work and strategy that goes into it, and it’s not just as simple as pressing post.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah. How important is it for social media managers to be passionate about the brand they represent?

Rachel Karten: I think that having an interest in the industry or the organization that you are working for is really, really important. I say that I am good at social because I work with brands where I love and am interested in what they’re all about. I loved food before I loved social media, and I found social media as a way to extend that love. And so I think that it doesn’t have to be something you’re an expert at, but it has to be something that you’re so curious about. I think curiosity is the best quality in a social manager. And so you’re always looking for new ways in, new ways to tell a story. And I think that being curious about the industry you’re working in is everything.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah. I think that resonates with a lot of our listeners because we work in arts and culture for a reason. A lot of people come from, especially in performing arts, people come from performing backgrounds and work in this because they love this industry. I think the more we can demonstrate that in organic social, the better time everyone’s going to have.

Rachel Karten: Yeah, that makes me think about a TikTok that I saw from American Ballet Theater, which was just a video of ballet dancers and you could just hear the tapping of the shoes on the stage, and it was just this moment that only a social manager who knows the arts and knows ballet would be able to see and see that’s a good piece of content. If I was to go film, I would be like, I don’t hear that. That’s not that interesting to me. The social manager heard that, thought that that was maybe ASMR-y in a way, and people might want to hear this. And it’s a huge video for them. So I think that just goes to show that having the person who’s behind the camera, who’s doing the social strategy, being really interested and able to see things that maybe somebody else couldn’t is really important.

Dan Titmuss: What is important for an organization to consider when hiring for their marketing team? Especially in roles that heavily focus on social media management?

Rachel Karten: I always focus on instincts, ideas. I’m less focused on the technical side of things. You can teach how to edit a video. You can teach how to write a caption. You can teach how to use the scheduling tool. It’s like, did they come to the interview with excitement and ideas and new ways in and accounts that they love to follow? That to me is number one.

Dan Titmuss: Yeah. And finally, if you could broadcast one message to executive directors, leadership teams, staff, and boards of thousands of arts organizations, what would that message be?

Rachel Karten: I think it’s to loosen up a little bit on social. I think that there’s, again, a feeling like if we show too much, then people won’t be incentivized to come. Or if we loosen up too much, the prestige will be gone. And I would say that to me, and to I’m sure a lot of potential customers or viewers younger than me, that is going to be the thing that makes them want to come. Organic social media can be that entry point for a lot of people and approaching those platforms in a way that feels like how people want to consume there, I think is really important.

Dan Titmuss: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Rachel. Where can people sign up for your newsletter or hear more about your work?

Rachel Karten: You can sign up for Link ln Bio at www.milkkarten.net, and you can follow me on social @milkkarten.

Dan Titmuss: Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us.

Rachel Karten: Thank you for having me.

Dan Titmuss: Before we say goodbye, let’s wrap things up with CI-lebrity Sightings. Here’s some of our favorite news stories about CI clients in 60 seconds or less. First, Taproot News cited Edmonton Symphony Orchestra’s efforts to engage the under-17 set in the article, “How arts organizations are working to attract younger audiences.” Nice work, ESO! Next, the team at Observer caught up with Nicholas Baume, Public Art Fund’s executive and artistic director, to discuss the state of public art in New York. Our favorite quote? “Powerful, relevant public art is essential in fostering an authentic sense of community.” Well said. Chicago media company New City interviewed Goodman Theater’s lighting supervisor Gina Patterson for their nerd-tastic article, “Let there be luminance: How lighting designers show us the show.” And finally, the Apollo was announced as an honoree for this year’s Kennedy Center honors for its vital role in cultivating new artists and serving as a catalyst for social and civic advocacy. Please join us in congratulating these organizations and check out the articles linked in our show notes. Got a story that deserves a shout out? Tag us on social and let us know.

Thank you for listening to CI to Eye. This episode was edited and produced by Karen McConarty and co-written by Karen McConarty and myself, Dan Titmuss. Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are CI to Eye’s designers and video editors, and all work together to create CI’s digital content. Our music is by whoisuzo. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please take a moment to rate us or leave a review. A nice comment goes a long way in helping other people discover CI to Eye and hear from experts in the arts and beyond. If you didn’t enjoy today’s episode, pass it on to all of your enemies. Don’t forget to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, and TikTok for regular content to help you market smarter. You can also sign up for our newsletter at capacityinteractive.com so you never miss an update. And if you haven’t already, please click the subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, stay nerdy.